Bemused

[pameladlloyd]

While searching for definitions of the term "Urban Fantasy" I came across The Christian Guide to Fantasy. The definitions are . . . slightly skewed, in my opinion.

For example:

Urban Fantasy - A subgenre of Fantasy; the action takes place in this world at this time, with no change in Earth's history, but rather in its dynamics (i.e., physics: usually magic is possible). Another area most often under the influence of secular paganism. [Emphasis mine]

In addition to the statement I highlighted, what bothers me about this "definition" is that it is so vague, it doesn't actually define.

Comments

[jmeadows.livejournal.com]

Interesting quote. I wonder how much UF the author read before making this statement. I haven't read as much as I should to really be a judge of it, but a few of the big names aren't exactly indicative of the rest of the subgenre.

[pdlloyd.livejournal.com]

Yes. I didn't read all of the other terms on the page, but there was one . . . *opens page, reads* . . . ah, yes, here it is, alternate reality, which includes in the definition, "this often fun and extraordinarly small genre not only alters this world's history, but also its dynamics." But, then it goes on to say, "Since this sub-genre is small, it has not been swayed one way or another in terms of morals. However, with the advent of The Shadow of Albion it's leaning more towards secular paganism. (*Note*: It's not too late to reclaim it! Hint. Hint.)"

Clearly, skimming the other entries, the author of this list has done some reading in both fantasy and science fiction, and has some enjoyment of the field. I think it's just the single-mindedness of his or her reaction to the whole thing that leaves me feeling uncomfortable. Well, that, and the discrepancy between the idea of putting together a list of terms, but then being fuzzy about some of the definitions. Oh, and wondering about her audience, which he/she seems to feel includes writers, or potential writers.

[jmeadows.livejournal.com]

*nod* I can see how it'd make you uncomfortable. It kind of makes me shift in my chair, too. The nature of fantasy calls for a lot of exploring, though, and it sounds like the author doesn't *quite* understand that. I have to wonder what examples of genre they've read.

What's the rest of the book like? Now you've got me curious.

[jmeadows.livejournal.com]

Oh wait, not a book. Webpage! See reading comprehension run... *sigh* *reads webpage*

[pdlloyd.livejournal.com]

Yes, Web page. Sorry that my original post didn't make that clear.

*nod* I can see how it'd make you uncomfortable. It kind of makes me shift in my chair, too. The nature of fantasy calls for a lot of exploring, though, and it sounds like the author doesn't *quite* understand that. I have to wonder what examples of genre they've read.

I'm sufficiently aware of my own biases that I have to examine my response to these definitions, but I genuinely feel that it is not so much that the author is looking at fantasy and science fiction from a Christian perspective, which is perfectly valid, but that in doing so they are skewing the definitions they offer. Also, I guess, with their inclusion of invitations to their audience to, hmm, redirect the focus of at least some of the subgenres to include a more Christian attitude. Which I have no problem with as an activity--the more people writing from different perspective, the better, so far as I'm concerned--I just don't see a list of definitions as the place to express this.

As an aside, I've read a bit of C.S. Lewis, whose works are (in my experience) often, if not always, from a Christian perspective. (I've read that he converted to Catholicism as an adult.) Some of them I've enjoyed, The Chronicles of Narnia, of course, and The Screwtape Letters, which is hilarious and a lot of fun, but I had to push myself through his Space Trilogy (Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength).

[jmeadows.livejournal.com]

No, your post was clear enough. I lack sufficient brain sometimes. :)

Yes, a call to action isn't really part of a definition, and neither is saying this subgenre tends to be better written than this other subgenre. That's a matter of taste.

I realize I'm probably oversensitive to this kind of thing, though, because I *am* a Christian who happens to write fantasy, and I'm not sure what someone like this would think about my work. Or if I'd care any more than I'd care about Random Joe liking my work. I do my best. But sometimes I look at my fellow Christians and think, "Man, you're just as scary as you think the rest of the world is."

[pdlloyd.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's really specific beliefs, per se (Christian, or otherwise), that bother me, so much as an attitude toward others' beliefs, that suggests there's something wrong with people who don't share one's beliefs. That is to say (because I think my previous statement was too convoluted), that, for example, if I act as if my view of the world is the only valid view, and treat you or anybody else as stupid or misguided, just because you hold beliefs different from mine, then I think I'm behaving in a misguided and wrong way.

I have some long-time friends. They're Mennonites, but of the variety who live in the modern world and are, in many ways, indistinguishable from any one else. I met them when some new friends of mine invited me to my first role-playing gathering. The husband works as a lawyer. Some years after meeting them,, I learned that they believe in demons as real entities which can possess people and otherwise interact with us. Now, this is not a belief I hold myself, but I try not to criticize it or to say it isn't true, in part because the fact of the matter is I don't know that it's not true. A few years ago, my own agnosticism came up in a conversation about constitutional issues and my friend of ten years, a lawyer, remember, said right to my face that my beliefs were not protected under the constitution, because they weren't religious. I was shocked, hurt, and confused. To me, his statement seemed so naive of both the legal and philosophical issues as to defy belief. But, he was serious.

I'm not going to back away from what I've just written, although part of me wants to just delete the last paragraph. I knew when I posted on the topic of religion/writing/attitudes that I was treading dangerous ground. But, I do feel strongly that our Constitution, in its language about religious freedom, was expressing an intent that we as Americans would have freedom of thought, especially in the context of religion. I also believe that religious thought is not something limited to membership in a specific group, but includes thought about those philosophical and spiritual subjects which religion addresses, regardless of the position one holds.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

I'd been so out of the loop when I first entered the LJ world that I hadn't even heard the term before. I assumed it meant what it sounded like: fantasy, but in an urban setting, and so, I decided, probably a modern-world setting.

Then I discovered it meant love stories involving vampires and werewolves...odd. I mean, technically, it's not limited to that, but that seems to be what people mean, 80 percent of the time, when they use the term.

[pdlloyd.livejournal.com]

And the definition you mention is so different from anything I would come up with (but seems to be something of the consensus on the "BitterCon: Urban Fantasy Expectations: Fantasy or Romance?" topic) that I'm wondering if I just never had a clue, or if the world moved on and left me behind.

For me, the genre centers around and is practically defined by the kind of work that Charles de Lint is doing, as well as by the Borderlands series edited by Terri Windling. I know that she has been identified as having been instrumental in having helped to create the genre, through her work in publishing authors like de Lint and Emma Bull.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Yeah--I much prefer a broader definition... really don't know why/how it came to be used so narrowly.

[pdlloyd.livejournal.com]

My impression is that it started narrow, but has recently broadened. But, that may only reflect my own bias, rather than anything out there in the real world. :)

[handworn.livejournal.com]

Isn't "secular paganism" a contradiction in terms?

[pdlloyd.livejournal.com]

Heh. Indeed. :>